Report 1124
Report #1124 Skillset: Harmonics Skill: Convoke Org: Institute Status: Completed Apr 2013 Furies' Decision: Solution 1. Problem: Convoke is a summoning skill that goes essentially unused. It requires resonance, which can only be placed on one target at any given time and costs 5 power every time it changes targets. Convoke requires an additional 3 power cost and small gem expenditure for a summon that is identical to Summon under Planar unless the target also has timewarp, at which point it is sped up at the following thresholds: 11 seconds at minor, 10 seconds at moderate, 7 seconds at majorly, and 4 seconds at massively. It would seem that, ideally, convoke is intended to be helpful in pulling back a target who is close to being killed via timequake. However, as timewarp is easy to cure quickly, the delays are liable to allow the target to cure out of all or most of their timewarp by the time you pull them back, at which point you may as well just chase after them instead. The purpose of this report, hence, will be to adjust convoke so that it might have reason to see use. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Reduce the summon times, and ensure the lower levels of timewarp are closer to the higher ones for reduction. 5 seconds at minor, 4 at moderate, 3 at major, and instant at massive, as a suggestion. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Reinvent Convoke into a 3 power summoning castable only on those with heartstones. It would be 6 seconds normally, or 4 seconds if the Convoker holds the heartstone of the person. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Reinvent Convoke into an ally rooting buff. When cast, it will boost rooting for all allies in the same room as the caster. There will be no rooting effect on the caster. Only one Convoke should be possible per room. It should have a 2 minute maximum duration before needing to be recast, and should drop immediately if the caster leaves the room. Costs and degree of rooting would be at the administration's discretion. Player Comments: ---on 4/2 @ 13:24 writes: I have preference for solution 2 or solution 3 over 1 - the first solution exists on the sole basis that the administration would rather not see the skill reinvented for another direction or purpose. ---on 4/2 @ 18:54 writes: Solution 1 or 2 is fine. Monos still stop this, right? ---on 4/3 @ 00:55 writes: Yes, it is blocked by monoliths. ---on 4/3 @ 18:03 writes: Solutions 1 and 2 supported. Solution 3 not supported. ---on 4/4 @ 19:53 writes: As someone requested clarity, I will point out that as solution 2 is a reinvention of the skill, the resonance requirement would not exist - the heartstone req would replace it entirely. ---on 4/6 @ 20:12 writes: Solutions one and two supported. I like the idea of changing the focus of the ability. ---on 4/7 @ 23:26 writes: Solution 1 only. Neither 2 nor 3 are needed. If you want empress, take tarot as at tertiary. You don't make a report to give it all Researchers. ---on 4/7 @ 23:34 writes: Solution three is basically Conclave without conclave's delay or coven prerequisite. I have an issue with an already superior guild taking skills from other guilds rather than toning down their own. ---on 4/7 @ 23:42 writes: I was under the impression that convoke only worked within the same local area. Halving a 4s summon down to 2 if they're in the same local area (which is where the majority of its use will come from I'm sure) is a bit iffy unless there is a room message on its activation and if it respected summon resistance. ---on 4/8 @ 00:19 writes: @Celina, lust does not cost power to apply to someone, nor does flinging Empress cost power, nor does Empress have the same delays. Solution 2 is not Empress. If people object to the local area reduction in solution 2, then I don't mind that so long as they clearly vocalise that they only support the solution with its absence. Now, in regard to solution 3, Conclave is not a fair comparison since Conclave extends to every coven member on the same continent. Solution 3 is more comparable to a reversal of scissorkick, if anything, excepting that it can't be used in all circumstances that scissor can be used in. ---on 4/8 @ 00:24 writes: I will also note that solution 2 was drafted with the expectation that it would respect summon resistance, but as that is not explicitly mentioned, I can certainly include it for the sake of clarity should it be desired. I'll also need to get back on whether or not it currently produces a room message for the person being summoned or if it is simply the same message as Planar Summon. ---on 4/8 @ 00:49 writes: Current Convoke summon messages: "You notice tiny glittering flecks appear in the air, swirling around you." - "Tiny glittering flecks appear in the air and swirl around Vivet." ---on 4/8 @ 02:31 writes: Solution 2 works exactly like empress for allies, save for a very brief 2 second delay. I don't really care how much power it costs, the power cost does not make it less similar to empress. It makes it more expensive, but functionally the same (even though create heartstones before hand so that particular power cost is fairly irrelevant). You're basically granting tarot utility benefits to healers. Sorry, not a good idea. When is the last time you saw someone use conclave across continent? Once during Ascension. That's not the practical application for the skill. There's very little reason to need to summon allies across a continent for 5 power. What it IS used for (though rarely) is summoning back people that just got beckoned or radded into a room. Which exactly what solution three intends to be. Only conclave has a couple of caveats in that only one person on conclave at any given time, and when that person dies, it requires a lot of time to make a new coven, and there is a significant delay to the skill. Basically what you've done is taken conclave, remove the area summon aspect that was never used, then also removed any downsides of the skill. Certainly much comparable than a reverse scissor random movement skill that does not exist. Making it stoppable by an icewall is not an acceptable caveat to what would basically be tremendously useful for saving allies from summon skills. ---on 4/8 @ 02:34 writes: For the record, Researchers do not need ally saving skills to counter beckon and the like. They have tremendous utility as it is, and if they want that sort of ability, again, go tarot. Like every other guardian is required to do. ---on 4/8 @ 03:02 writes: Power costs are entirely relevant when summon resistance comes into play, especially in long, drawn out fights where you do want to conserve power when possible. Additionally, heartstones vanish when someone dies, whether you use the heartstone to revive them or not, so in any drawn scuffle you would need to reapply heartstone (5p) every single time. Lust stays until someone rejects. Nothing suggested here can be a true replacement for Empress, which additionally would having enemy summoning aspects as well as ally. ---on 4/8 @ 03:12 writes: I would also suggest that if you think that is how Conclave is supposed to work, then you might find it more constructive to consider trying to adapt the idea for yourself instead of accusing people of "stealing" your skills, when that may have not been the specific intention behind Conclave anyways. Solution 3 has already rather clearly not received support from other envoys. Perhaps you might explore why, then consider if it might fit elsewhere. ---on 4/8 @ 03:25 writes: I don't think I ever said the proposed power cost was not "relevant." The point is you don't replace or create hearstones in the middle of a fight, so the power cost of a heartstone is not a limiting factor of the skill. Again, it does not have to be a exact mirror of empress to be functionally very similar. You added a power cost, doesn't mean the skill will be any less useful or diminish it's massive value that is akin to empress. Though none of that touches on the argument that Institute is a long, long way from needing this sort of buff. I know why solution three has received no support, and have no intention of hyper buffing conclave or adapting said solution in any future plans for conclave. It has a niche, a valuable one when used correctly, and we could all benefit from the lesson of "not everything has to be awesome all the time." ---on 4/8 @ 03:35 writes: One of the things that concerns me with this report is not neccessarily a guild issue but a organization issue. Hallifax, by way of Aerochemantics, has a very easy, passive way of splitting up attacking groups, something that's quite essential in most combat sutuations. Changing this so that it summons all of your allies is a definate no as this would allow you to split up your enemies AND regroup far too easily. The second thing that bothers me is the idea that you need a rescue skill at all which is generally available to everyone in the guild. I'd be worried that a healer with a rescue is way too much. Finally, the numbers in solution 2 don't make sense to me as you're saying that it requires heartstones, would normally take 8 seconds but if they have heartstones it'd take 4. Why have the 8 second possibility in there if you need heartstones to complete the skill? ---on 4/8 @ 03:41 writes: @Kregarn, it is possible for the Convoker to not be the person that has woven the heartstone that the target has. The reduction would only apply if the researcher casting Convoke at that time is the one who gave the target their heartstone. If that was not abundantly clear, it can be reworded. ---on 4/8 @ 03:44 writes: I will also note that heartstones are not regular objects you can just pass around. One researcher cannot pass on the heartstone they hold for another to some other researcher. ---on 4/8 @ 21:20 writes: I'm pretty sure I've raised my bugbear of Hallifax being the only org to lack a 'pull' skill other than rad for stand-off situations before. In the absence of runist aeromancer the only option is to wait behind shield for opposing group to enter, or engage in what might be unfavourable conditions. Convoke being an 8p summon limited to a single resonanced person does not alleviate this problem. While I'm likely flogging dead horse, ideal solution for me is to remove the resonance requirement and make it functionally equivallent to Transmology Sing. But of these three, support #2 or a targeted version of #3 for less power. ---on 4/9 @ 02:36 writes: I'll concede the heartstones point but I am not willing to support solution 2 at this point nor do I support 3. I've no problem with solution 1. ---on 4/9 @ 22:27 writes: Solution 1 seems ok with me. What if solution 2 were extremely fast but consumed the heartstone, cost a bit more and stopped by monolith? Would that be useful? Would it be OP? ---on 4/10 @ 04:37 writes: Solution 2 and 3 have been editted and redrafted, respectively. This is merely a notation to indicate such for those reading the report for the first time. ---on 4/11 @ 02:19 writes: I actually like solution 3 for the redraft as long as there's still a chance and it's not fully rooted. Solution 1, 2, or 3 are fine with me. (Obviously, not all of them at once.) ---on 4/12 @ 23:42 writes: Opposed to new solutions. Still not seeing an argument as to why need this sort of buff, though there are several to be made against it. The guild brings so much power and utility to group fights, it really does not need more. ---on 4/13 @ 16:32 writes: I think solution 3 would actually be pretty okay if locked into a room. I support any of these, but favour that one since it'll turn a faily unused skill into something more useful. ---on 4/18 @ 01:53 writes: No to solution 1- there's no need for instant summoning even at maximum timewarp. Just don't see a good reason for dropping it from 4s to instant. Given your progression, the best solution would be a 2s delay, which is a bit more reasonable. Solution 2 is not really a skill needed for the Institute in addition to what you already have, as Celina has expounded upon in detail. Solution 3 is interesting- as long as it has a respectable power cost, it could be a decent addition. For example, Barrier (having much the same effect) costs a full 10p. ---on 4/18 @ 03:42 writes: Massive timewarp is not something that will be generated outside of shatterplex. There's simply not a good means for a researcher to make it build/stick outside of that burst. Anyone who is mobile enough to move away from a researcher without curing timewarp down from massive is most likely doing something very wrong. Even if convoke goes through, it is a 3 power summon, so they cannot be timequaked right away. Unless you are suggesting the power cost also be reduced, Xenthos, I think instant at massive is perfectly acceptable and don't see a valid reason for arguing against it. ---on 4/25 @ 20:35 writes: I don't really see a valid reason for making the summon instantaneous. Are you unable to chase people? Pretty much every other class has to deal with runners and chasing (minus things like empress etc). There isn't really a room setup like bards needing to maintain octave that researchers have or anything, so the need of an instantaneous summon seems moot. I actually like solution 3 the most, depending on how much summon resist it adds, I hope an appropiate powercost is associated with it. ---on 4/26 @ 00:35 writes: That's the whole point, Synkarin. With all the restrictions already in place (only one person can have resonance at a time, efficiency limited by timewarp, costs 3 power), there's virtually no incentive to actually use it over chasing if it's going to prevent you from timequaking immediately -and- be delayed. That said, I don't really like solution 1 and would prefer not to have it, as mentioned in the first comment. Having a summon mechanic whose efficiency is built around an end-kill condition is something I'd prefer to move away from. That will not, however, prevent me from thinking it ridiculous to say that it is asking for too much in the given context unless some of these restrictions and costs go away. ---on 4/26 @ 03:19 writes: If you don't support it, then don't argue/suggest it? I disagree with your assessment of the skill, and if you wish, can discuss it further with you in person, but if we're both not in support of it, lets not argue it and instead discuss what solutions we do like. I feel like solution 3 give convoke a niche, unique place that wouldn't really be overpowered and would actually help Hallifax out. I just wish whatever boost to summon resist it grants, is given an appropiate powercost. Giving everyone summon resist , even just an extra level of it, is definitely worth 10p. Type MORE to continue reading. (98% shown)